Valerie, Heather -- It just means that Arik better come to PRSA's International Conference in DC this year so that I can meet him. :)

Thanks for your insights and for your perspectives. Like I said, it's not so much the gender issue here, but we're all guilty of "hanging out" with those who are most like us. I have to constantly remind myself to look around and approach people who are NOT like me. Must be the reason why I'm married to an engineer.

Deirdre, Nicole. You raise a very good point about maintaining an understanding that these lists come from a personal perspective. Understanding the context is important. And overanalyzing lists like these can result in a great deal of unintended (and unnecessary) conclusions)

Nicole- my reaction was the same- didn't notice the lack of women present and instead saw it as a post illustrating some interesting people to investigate! Well said!

Deni- Thanks for commenting-- Your "Wonder Gals" response/post was a great resource, filled with women we can all learn from. You make a good point in saying it’s not a disservice to point out how inequality — gender or otherwise — and again, intentional or not, continues to predominate in this world... which brings me to Sasha's post.

Sasha- Thanks for sharing that link. I do not think that being a woman, has created any professional challenges for me (certainly not to my knowledge!), so it was especially interesting to read the story of "James" Wow... still contemplating and wondering how the greater context of gender issues impacts bloggers. Is there any responsibility for influential and respected industry leaders to take?

On a side note, one thing that I have learned from all this- Headlines matter!!!!! When I shared this post many assumed that I was calling out Arik because of the title "Where are the Woman?" (And as my husband pointed out, I didn't get straight to my point in the first 2 paragraphs). I wrote in response to all of the feedback I saw which raised the issue of gender... a reaction very different than my own, but one that I felt was worthy of its own discussion!

Have you ever read this post from CopyBlogger?
(http://www.copyblogger.com/james-chartrand-underpa...)

I think it's so sad and so true. I can definitely relate to it which is rather pitiful I think.

I don't think Arik did it on purpose, so I wouldn't hold him at fault. I think his choices have a lot to do with what appeals to him, what doesn't, etc. etc. etc. That's only fair and that's just the way most people are.

What's funny though is that when I was in university most of my peers in public relations and advertising classes were female. There were very few men. Of some of those same people that I keep in touch with now, the boys are doing other things outside of public relations and advertising (like law school) whereas all the girls, including myself are looking for employment or are currently employed in agencies etc.

I think demographics as well as what surrounds one socially play a big factor in what they produce.

It's an interesting topic to talk about. Thanks for sharing Valerie! :)

Rosanna- Can I second Heather's comments? Arik has taught me so much about community building. I have watched him reach out to so many (including myself)

Mary- Can I challenge you on the "no lists" wish? While I think you are absolutely right... they are limiting and certainly subject to scrutiny, I have found lists like this a great way to get introduced to new people and ideas. Is it possible that the problem is not with the list, but with the readers? That we take these lists to seriously? I would hate it if we became so afraid of offendin someone that we grew stingy with our praise!

Lindsey- Arik's blog and he can do whatever he wants- YUP! Somes it up nicely. BUT Arik does have a community and with that community comes a certain responsibility... or at least an understanding that the community may talk back!

Great debate going on,and ditto, I don’t think Arik intentionally left women off his list. After, all, some of his best PR friends are women, right?

Still, the fact that there are no women on a list for a field where women have such strong influence and imprint strikes me as irksome. But not uncommon (in fact my post The Wonder Gals of Web 2.0 was in response to a similar all-male list). The boys club ‘tude whether intentional or not is pervasive. This isn’t some P.C, diversity-or-bust, we-need-one-of-each-ethnodemographic stance -- it’s just the way it is. Most don’t even notice because this is the norm in a multitude of circumstances.

I don’t think it’s a disservice to point out how inequality -- gender or otherwise -- and again, intentional or not, continues to predominate in this world. If we did that then things would stay the same forevermore.

Obviously this article is just one blog post – it’s not some major statement. Still the omission obviously hit a nerve. I too sent out a tweet with the title of Arik’s post after which I inserted (not 1 woman, what’s up with that?). I often add little comments in my tweets, to pique interest, and indeed this one did.

The upshot is, much spirited discussion has ensued and Arik’s post gets a lot more attention than might otherwise occur. That’s pretty good PR, eh?

As a member of the Women in Business group on campus, I've listened to multiple speakers talking about what women face during their careers. Although sometimes these stories include gender hardships, others illustrate female success.

When I read Arik's original blog post, I didn't even notice the lack of women present. I instead saw it as a post illustrating some interesting people to investigate.

Thus, even though I would seemingly be more prone to being offended by Arik's post, I instead enjoyed it and hope he continues providing interesting and relevant information.

~Nicole@NBryant

Hi Valerie,

Great post! I love this kind of conversation, especially when the people commenting can keep it clean and thought provoking as well!

I don't want to be repetitive and am on the same page as Deirdre. I think it is important to note that lists are often created from a personal perspective and do not necessarily reflect the best follows for someone else. It is their take on who they see as the top people to follow and nobody should be offended by that.

Great post!@NicolePRExec

Hi Valerie,

I think it's fantastic that so many people are discussing Arik's list and your guest post. It just shows the passion and sense of community. I think that Arik meant no harm with his 7 most intriguing people, but I think you raise some really good points. And, at first blush, sure, I would have liked to see several of the well known women that I know on the list, who are doing great things for the PR profession. But, the discussion of course can go both ways...everyone has an opinion and that's the beauty of social media. I'm happy to see that this discussion includes different thoughts about who should be on their own individual lists, maybe not Arik's because in all fairness, these 7 people were probably the first that came to his mind and who really intrigued him. I'm sure that if subsequent lists were written by Arik or any of us, we would see men, women of all ages and demographics. I admire that you took on the guest post and how you have the entire community thinking, reacting and sharing. It's always hard to make lists because there are those who are left off inadvertently, and those who just don't make it. Nonetheless, it's harmless and all in the good spirit of sharing.

Valerie,

You raise some interesting questions and points here. I, like many of the other commenters, do not have a problem with there not being any women on Arik's Top 7 list. I don't think there should be a quota or any type of demographic requirements for any of these types of lists. If someone is intriguing, they're intriguing, whether they are male or female.

I do understand though why the issue/question was raised, and I don't see a problem with bringing it up and starting a conversation such as this one.

I agree with Heather in that perhaps Arik could have mentioned his rationale for creating his list and also with Rachel that the post might have been better titled “The 7 PR People Who Intrigued Me The Most This Year.”

Then again, it's Arik's blog, and he can do whatever he wants! :)

Thanks for sparking this conversation, Valerie.

Lindsey@LindsTR

What a great conversation we're all having here. I'll admit I was one who was a bit surprised at Arik's list...not because I should have been on it but as a result of the lack of diversity.

To me it's one of the dangers of creating lists as they leave you open to scrutiny and especially from those who aren't listed. Quite honestly I wish we didn't have them.

I will also say, as someone who's been around for quite a while (>50 years) and seen the hard work/progress women have made over the years, it does still hurt to see a list that excludes women. It does still remind me that (and I know Arik probably doesn't fit here) we have a lot of work to do to get the same respect the guys have.

Various ethnic groups who have been, and continue to be, working so hard to make the same strides likely see the same thing in lists like this.

Again...I wish we didn't have to create lists.

Rosanna, I wanted to jump back in to the conversation here to answer the question you posed to Arik. (Sometimes, having a "third-party" provide the answer is more beneficial than hearing it straight from the source.) I know Arik very well -- and if you look at who he interacts with, as well as the people he highlights on his blog in other posts, it's easy to see that he's more than willing to interact with diverse groups of people. Arik was one of the first people I met on Twitter -- probably when I had just double-digit followers. And, he often took time to chat with me or to comment on my blog. It didn't matter to him that I wasn't a super-Twitter-user, or that I wasn't "one of the guys." By participating in various chats, groups, etc, I think Arik does a better job than most of reaching out and bringing new voices into the discussion. Hope that helps answer the questions posed in your comment. :)

Heather@prTini

Lisa- very good point regarding the women only lists/groups... particularly since women do dominate the PR industry. I have never hear a complaint about them, but imagine there would be quite an uproar if a similar list, specifically limited to men, was released.

Davina- yes, David's comment was one of the many I read that inspired this "rant." As I mentioned to Arik, I was not surprised at how often my tweet about his post was RT'd (I thought it was a great list, with some very "intriguing" PR pro's) but by how many of those RT's included comments about the absence of women.

Jen- with ya... and per our tweets, you've been on my list since your rant about the term professional :)

Rachel- Love the point that "we do ourselves a disservice when we point out gender, rather than skill and experience, when disputing a list" Was actually having that conversation with my mom last night! I think if there is a person you feel is missing (regardless of gender) you comment on the individual. And much appreciate the kind words... am thrilled to be part of what is very much a mutual appreciation society!

This is one of those really annoying situations because I can see (and agree with) so many different sides participating in the conversation.

Arik -- I don't know you but do follow you on Twitter. Find some of your commentary useful and some of it funny.

I think the key issue here is not who was named to the list or who was excluded from the list. The issue is deeper than that ... it has to do with whom Arik is exposed to in order to create the list. What exactly is intriguing to Arik may very well have a lot to do with what you're being exposed to or with whom you're interacting.

So, my question to you, Arik would be: Are you open enough to interacting with diverse people, men and women -- different religions, ethnicities, sexual orientation, etc.? Are they enriching your perspectives and viewpoints? Are they changing your way of seeing things?

Or are those who you find to be the most intriguing individuals who are similar to you in many ways?

Valerie,

I think you raise some great points here, although to answer your question, I don't think Arik really made any mistakes, except perhaps in how he phrased the post. Had it been me (although it wouldn't be, because I stray away from making lists for this very reason :)) I would have named the list "The 7 PR People Who Intrigued Me The Most This Year."

While I'll agree it's surprising not to see any woman on a list about intriguing PR people, I actually think we do ourselves a disservice when we point out gender, rather than skill and experience, when disputing a list. As weird as it is, I actually don't join women's-only career groups for that very reason - I don't want to be identified by my gender - I'd rather connect and network with awesome PR people whoever they are. If we keep pointing out the gender difference ourselves, it won't go away and it's doesn't level the playing field in my opinion.

Another reason it didn't really bother me is simply because I know Arik so well, and know he wasn't even thinking about excluding women when he put it together. Arik constantly recognizes all of his peers, men and women, which is what makes him such a fantastic networker.

Although, I will say if I was to add to the list I'd definitely have added you Valerie, because I think you've done an amazing job of connecting with your core audience and you've provided a wealth of information and resources this year. :)

Rachel Kay

I'm just mad Arik left me off the list. Not because I'm a woman, but I"m pretty damn intriguing. Just ask me. ;)

List, schist. There are so many lists, with so many facets, and all of them are based on what's hot or of interest at that exact moment in time.

I bet if Arik developed the list a month earlier, there might have been a woman or two on it. Or maybe not. Either way, it's his list.

Agreeing with Ari and Kasey: Arik made a list of 7 (because it's a good number for a list I guess) PEOPLE in PR he found intriguing.

Are there intriguing women in PR? Of course. It's not like he was saying there aren't, he just found different people for this particular list. They happened to be men.

I remember David Armano's RT of the post, came with a "Dude List" warning. I was like, who cares if they're all dudes or not? If they are cool people to follow, I'd like to know about them. FWIW.

Valerie – Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate the thought-provoking questions and your take on Arik's Friday post. Arik - I enjoyed reading your thoughts last Friday as well :-)

First, no one person reaches out and grabs me as 'most intriguing' because there are so many that I learn from and enjoy watching as the landscape of mar-comm continues to change. I'm most intrigued by the discipline as a whole and the conversation that surrounds it. Yes, the contributions of those involved do not go unnoticed, but I think that in the midst of all the excitement people often forget that a good practitioner of the mar-comm field is a good practitioner. The new tools continue to emerge and they are merely catalysts to build better relationships and establish better bonds between orgs and their publics. More than anything, I'm just a little sick of lists in general.

Do I think it's silly that Arik didn't include any women? Absolutely not. Being a regular reader of Arik's blog, watching him engage online and knowing him personally, I know that he respects, works with and gives great accolades to many women in the PR community. Also, it's his blog where he can say whatever he'd like about whatever he likes. I’m glad that Arik didn’t falsify information for the sake of being politically correct.

Also, you listed three women only lists. How many men only lists are there out there of a similar kind? Not many because the masses would descend on them for excluding women. It’s an interesting double standard. Good stuff Valerie. Thanks.

Ari & Kasey, I am actually in agreement with you on whether demographics should be considered. As long as a list like this offers the community some good insights/ resources in the selection, gender did not even occur to me. Until...

When I RT'd the original post and was shocked by the number of comments I received about the absence of women (note, these comments came from both men and women) It is an issue that certainly seems to matter to Arik's community and I thought it was an interesting lesson in, as Heather points out, the need for bloggers to be prepared for the reaction of their community.

Heather well said- I think we have similar wiring :) I do feel badly though, because I very much appreciate finding new people from other lists, but like you, I hesitate before creating my own for fear of offending/excluding.

This is stupid, no offense.

Arik made a list. Like it or hate, amend it or keep it, it's his list.

Must everyone interject their thoughts how it should be improved? I'm with Kasey here on whether the list should have more women, or more senior citizens, or more Puerto Rico residents. Who cares?

OK, I'll take the bait. Valerie, you raise excellent points. I loved Arik's list because it included people I wasn't familiar with; however, I did email him asking why it appeared he knew no intriguing women. Like you, I happen to know Arik well enough to know that that's just not true. He surrounds himself with lots of smart people -- men and women (just look at his Twitter stream on any given day!). Because I know Arik so well, when he explained that he wanted to go outside the box for his "intriguing" post, I believed him. That's just who Arik is. He always brings new people into the spotlight. (That was one of the beauties of the Bloggers Choice contest and his "next A-listers" post.) But, not everyone knows Arik like you and I do. As such, he probably should have been a little more clear in how he chose these 7 men. To answer your question, I don't think bloggers need to consider demographics when making these lists, but if they are going to post lists that clearly exclude a group of people, they may want to offer their rationale. Or be ready for the onslaught of questions ...

Related, it's interesting to see how people react to lists. You and I were named to a list of 30 PR people to follow this morning, but there are lots of very smart PR people who were left off that list. It's a shame that lists have to be so exclusionary, but I guess that's their nature. To be honest, it's part of the reason that I haven't created any pubic Twitter lists. I have lists and groups on Tweetdeck and Seesmic, and I follow other people's Twitter lists, but I shy away from creating my own, mainly because I don't want to hurt someone's feelings by leaving them off. That's silly, but it's just how I'm wired. :)

Sorry for writing a novel in the comments section! Great guest post.

Heather@prTini

I'm going to go against the grain here. But why does one person's list have to conform to other people's opinion? Why does every "top 10" or "most X" have to include an equal number of men, women, old, young, US, international, etc.?

I'm glad Arik shared who HE thought here intriguing. We all know there are plenty of men and women alike who make our industry what it is, but I think it's a bit much to come and question the validty or ask why someone wasn't included.